Hello, in the magnifier series, we ask the leading experts of the industry the questions you are curious about the answers to in the field of growth. Today's topic is Kerem Bozokluoğlu, one of the first employees and partners of insigher, one of Turkey's most successful global technology startups. Welcome, Kerem, welcome. Hello, my contemporary, what news, thank you very much. Normally, you always ask the question in the videos. I'm asking, thank you very much, I thank you, to briefly introduce the word, Kerem has been a human being for about 12 years. He has been involved in every stage of the growth journey, has vast experience in startup growth, product, sales, and conversion optimization, and we will ask the questions we have in mind when we have found such an expert. Let me do it this way, thank you, it was actually a good introduction for me. Let's shorten Radaki engin a little bit because there are people who are much more involved in nature than I am. I think I am at a level where I can convey what I know and what I have experienced. So what does it mean again that you can't say thank you so much? First of all, I would like to ask you for coming, is there a determining factor for a brand or company to say that it is time for us to focus on conversion optimization, we should increase conversions? So you have a budget size, a certain traffic volume or target that triggers this decision. Or is it more of a visionary manager in the company? It provides movement. By the way, I thought the same thing when the contemporary sent me this question. Now, if we said 34 years ago, I could answer this question as follows, I would say that it would be very important for a company that has attracted people to its digital channels in order to sell a product with an average of 100,150 to 1,000 customers, and I would say that it would be very important for a company that has attracted people to its digital channels to start conversion optimization gradually. However, it has changed so much now and we are now entering another process that a company actually needs to start from day one. He needs to start conversion optimization. The reason for this is that I am selling a product or a service, I called someone. Are they persuaded to take that someone has arrived? The best way to understand this is to make the journey starting from those small clusters. Because the thing has gone up a lot, the competition has gone up a lot. 100 different places sell the same product. And when you sell the same product in so many 100 different places, when someone's advertising spend and budget is so big, when you start your journey as a small company, when you try to sell the same product, the same terms of service, you do not create awareness or offer something different, which we should prefer. The biggest preference of the consumer here is reliability in general, and the second is price competition. As a matter of fact, if you are in an industry where these two are far ahead, even in the smallest cluster, it is useful to start making content that will take actions to improve conversion optimization. Let's say the thing side of this in a similar way. It's a similar situation not only for the product, but also for entrepreneurs. You have an idea, you are about to bring your idea to life, this can be a software, a speed. In the same way, the most important step is to start the journey by having a lot of user experience, that is, customer experience, in areas where you can sell your idea before passing it, sitting at the table with them and understanding whether they like your idea or not, whether they want to buy it or not. So you're actually saying that it's a mindset and if you're in this kind of competitive environment, it's best to start this way, and even now there are a lot of good things lately, there are names for growth. It's called linking, it's called growth hacking techniques. There are techniques applied by many companies in the sector and these techniques are now combined. Gradually then we got the work of multitomisation. There is the business of analyzing from Google analytics. There's the business of optimizing advertising channels, there's the job of creating personas, it's such a comprehensive thing. All of this falls under growth hacking. The main purpose of Grov Tekin is this. A user base that will shop or buy goods or services from you analiz@ in the digital environment: Enter the exact details of the audience you are analyzing, catch the need, produce solutions that meet the needs and increase it to 10, in order to sell the most suitable service or product, you are now starting to take marketing actions, but when you start this, you know what this audience needs, as well as what they like. As a matter of fact, we can think that a sale that you will organize by knowing what you like shortens this period, naturally the money you will earn after the sale and the money you spend until this sale is faster, optimizing profitability, and consequently providing an environment where you make the company more profitable or sustainable. This was the brand and company side of the business. There is also the service side of the business. These can also be agencies, consultants. There may be different strategic partners. Maybe a startup can be a tool. At this point, there are actually many stakeholders, but there are also very different approaches and practices. Is this related to the standard of the service? In fact, it is in question. What are the basic principles of a brand that provides a conversion optimization service in the service standards, what are the points that must be in the service standards, what is the conversion rate or conversion optimization business that you call your spouse now, it is a bit of a complicated and complicated job. When you sit down with a company, when you say that I will do zoning rey optimization for you, the person in front of you understands this, I am saying it for our country because of the English terms. He is asking questions, and he cannot have complete information about what to buy, so let's separate. Let one side have a positive side. The positive side consists of professionals who try to do their job well and try to provide it to this company in a sustainable way. And he heard about it somehow, and tried to do something. Here is a mass of people who have read blocks indirectly, tried to improve themselves with them, but the whole job is to make money first, and then we will look at the operation here anyway, now the professionals here comvernet optimization is a bit of a difficult job. So you can get very bored. It is a job that should be done with love while doing it. That detail is to understand the details of what I just described. He created a portfolio of customers. It's actually not an easy thing because we are multi-disciplined. So, as with everything else, this is a discipline and in order to make it sustainable, you need to knead that dough well. And the number of people who can withstand it is the same as those who shoot youtube content in the same job. We can think like influencers. Since they don't have that self-discipline, they quit after a while. Naturally, the number of people in this positive here is very small, but on the other hand, I do this. And we've done that over there. That's how we did it, or by chance, because it somehow got the right wordy with a word that it caught by chance by optimizing even in source optimization. With an audience that gets traffic, they can show that we did this and sell it very well. Now, the parties who buy it, in general, the buyers do not know very well, so the good here is a very relative concept, but just because they do not know the detail due to the self-discipline just now, and their purpose is to make a sale, to organize the right sale to the customer, which comes with this promise. They want to take the audience because of that virginity in the first place. As a result, when you work with certain audiences for a certain period of time and do not see any benefit. In fact, the konver junight optimization business is becoming nothing more than a braggadocio. Since they think that there is a situation of being deceived as a point of view, the receiving party tries to get away from them as much as possible. This causes certain problems. For example, the interruption of spending on advertising channels at work. Here is the fact that people who will devote enough time to social media channels are not there or an alternative service cannot be obtained. In the business that does these, it causes things such as paid tools and products not to spend enough money on products that support them software. And that's getting farther and farther away from it. When I advertise, there is already a sale, and when I don't, it doesn't happen. It puts it in the process. We can think that this is actually a little damaging to the things there. In parallel with what he said, there was actually a lot of flow. In recent years, it has been one of the areas that performance agencies have entered on the consultancy side to provide additional income. In fact, because of the lack of return optimization and the right trained person, the right motivation, and discipline, yes, many brands actually have a negative benefit. Because of his experience, he perceived it as if there was a gap in that concept, but I understand that he said that it wasn't. Let's give an example with numbers, the average conversion rate in Turkey is currently 1 and a half percent. When you remove the companies that are out of this line called Look, it goes below zero nines. So we have a situation that goes below the waist. Let's take it for granted. So let's take it as 1%. This means that a company that does this job very well, has proven its reliability, then has a competitive advantage in price, can offer a guarantee, can send the product on time, and does all of these very well, and one out of every 100 visits turns into shopping. Can you imagine that number now? Hur dåligt är det? Let's say I own a meatball shop. I like this example very much, by the way, because it was raised in a physical store. As someone who learned to be a salesman there, I decided to enter this sector. Imagine that you have a meatball shop where 100 people visit an aisle or a meatball shop in a physical store, here are the meatballs on the grill, waiting to be heated. At that moment, 100 people enter the content and just one of them says, can I have half a loaf of meatballs? Then those 100 people go out and eat only one person. I think I probably wouldn't be able to open the shop the next day. Because, you know, 100 people came and only one person ordered. So to tell you that this is a very sad thing and this is considered a good rate. In Turkey, that is, 1% sales are considered a good rate. As a matter of fact, as someone who has just started the business, what I mean by starting is to think of yourself as a company that has been kneaded in this for at least 12 years. It's a miracle that you catch one %, so you're in the zero, sixties, zero, fifties, zero, forties. It's just you and the ververge optimization thing. This is the issue of closing the gap, that is, separating your customer who returns with zero fifty and returns zero 40 with five from that cluster. This is where you can transform that remaining zeroness, how you can persuade them to buy a product or service, how you can find the basis. That's why it's still important for our optimists against the comorjon. As soon as they do it now, I'll discuss it, and they'll do it well. There are also those who come up with an idea. We can come up with an idea for anything. They can go to the agencies and say something in a good way. Either way, I see such an opportunity here. They may say that there are areas where you can take advantage of this opportunity. Naturally, it would be a good consultancy that comes from the air, but it will be paid or it will buy this service with its value. We can say to the companies that it is necessary to buy it from their professionals. Drink you in a way that does not leave the slightest crumb in that detail that really thinks about it, has that self-discipline and understands you day by day. It will make you take actions that will convince your customer. It is necessary to find people. Let me give you one more example here. He organized hot sales training for us in one electronic market where I worked. The company is the owner and we have been sitting on this hot sale for a very long time. We learned the basics of. What does hot selling mean? They teach you how not to drive a person you have 100 faces away from without making a purchase if they have already come to the point where they are out of tune. There was something very simple. There was a very nice feature that came out of the observations they made. To say hello to every customer who comes, to extend your hand, to say your name and surname, to learn the name and surname of the person in front of you, to increase it to 10 to call by that name, and this provides an environment that allows you to establish such warm relationships. Naturally, those 100 people come to you, these are the advantages of not missing even one of the 100 people. Now, this customer already sees a product when coming to the physical store and you are coming. Fifty percent of the purchase decision has already been made. He wants to be convinced. Yes, where it comes from is the point of persuasion, all you have to do is know that you need to exhibit action that will persuade by establishing a warm relationship. He wants to hear from you what he needs. Increase it to 10 and he will be convinced. And there is a rule that the person who comes for something worth 400 liras in a hot sale has already bought it. They ask you what you sold. I mean, what extra benefit did you give us in this aisle, or what did you try to do by asking if you would like to eat this meatball not half a loaf of bread, but a half and a half, were you able to convince it? They say that this is the most important thing, and that warm relationship provides it. An electronic item that came for 400 TL is not what you actually need. What you need is to be able to sell it by saying that it is 600 liras. In hot sales, you can do this by talking, but how do you do it in the digital world, that's where influencers come in. The right influencer can appeal to your good customer in the right detail. Here are the people who can really analyze and explain the benefit of the product. For example, he started to become the voice of digital media. As a matter of fact, finding the right person is a place where you can find the right person if you know your customer right now. That's what makes it a professional place. He says to you, look, this influencer is calling out to your customer. That's why there was an audience that we converted with zero, you know, those who did not convert with 40 five, but left without converting, by attracting people who could turn into instead of these outgoing ones. In fact, digitality is one of the methods for persuading people to shop. That's what the professionals provide. I also got an answer related to my next question here, but I still want to ask, we can actually do a lot of it and call it a company. We can call it a brand diyebiliriz.com or a mobile application. They can also evaluate it at points such as stabilization or marginal benefit or reaching a plateau in conversion optimization. I think the answer to the issue of not being satisfied with 1% and a half increases to 1 and a half%. What do you think the brands that think they are on this plateau here should do after this point, what advice would you give? Conversion optimization is a very good job. It is one of the things I love to do. I've loved getting my head around it for years. Because it seems to me that it's such a game. Well, I'm moving very well here. Now after you get to a certain level in this regard, that is, you have caught one of those %. Let's say it's very important that it's sustainable, first of all, it's there, but that doesn't mean that we can provide one % of our convergent optimism, or I'm here now and I'm okay, I'll go above and beyond that. I don't mean I'm here anymore, it's not because when you're doing that, i.e. when you're converting at one percent, you're getting 20,000,000 traffic per month and you're converting one percent. It is correct to say that if we get more traffic, we will capture one percent more. If you have a physical store, it means that some of it goes to the physical store. That means making money. When you start making money, the channels become more active. In other words, the opposite of the situation we just talked about happens and you want more ads, more content, more visibility, and you start to want it. You start to do it without a fuss, it reduces the conversion, of course, so the audience that comes is no longer your influencer, but the audience in all influencers. As you said, that conversion rate gradually decreases, but the revenue increases. However, rather than saying that our conversion rate has decreased, it will see that our income increase and increase that income. We need to take the actions I just talked about. I want to say here that you used to sell a product and your conversion was one, now you are down to zero and fifty again. But this time you should try to sell 2345 products, not one. I can hear here that I'm selling holidays. How do I sell 2 products? Yes, he is quite right. This time, it is necessary to divide the months during the year and take action that will make more than one sale 2345 sales at different frequencies. I'm taking a weekend at work, a close one. Taking actions such as visiting a place in the locality is the second sale there. Although it varies on the basis of the sector, it is necessary to take action that will provide them. In other words, only people came. That's not to say he threw an item in the basket and did so. At the same time, it is important to keep this process sustainable with the change that has been created, are you still attracting the audience that does not convert at your average conversion rate? This question is very important, so are you aware of it? Are you aware that this is coming, can you analyze it? It's still there, but yes, we still want to promote our brand, and when you take it out, can you see that the money you spend here and the return is still one and a half percent? This is important because sometimes when marketing, that is, while doing these marketing actions, the branding job called branding is also very important. Even if they don't buy anything, you can attract customers to your store and show them some of their features, functions and products, just as that shop shows itself in the OAVM. These were thrown into the street. It doesn't mean money, it's indirect, it's going to convert again. To say that it creates the sub-foundations, if you are aware of this audience there, it means that you are actually doing komonjour society visa, that is, conversion optimization. We asked all of our guests about the role of artificial intelligence in each area of expertise. I want to ask you too, but I want to ask you a little bit. I have a question here about what AI can shape in conversion optimization in the short term in a few years. And a little bit. When we think of a longer range, when we think of a valley of 5 years or 10 years, which is not really easy to commit to in artificial intelligence. What do you think will be the role of artificial intelligence in conversion optimization, what can be done for this now? Very good question, there are a lot of questions about artificial intelligence. I would like to answer this in the present, let me tell you. Generating ideas about what artificial intelligence will do with each passing day. It means refuting the idea I came up with before, and this is not something I like very much. Because there is an unpredictable content. It is even said that this content, that is, in many researches, has not yet been opened enough. That's why we discover something completely different in every new product that comes out in the algorithm. I would like to briefly summarize this as follows, let's take a look at the history of this, one of the most important things for conversion optimization is to produce content where the customer can reach the product they are looking for. This is a very important criterion because the cheapest way to find you in search engines is to do serchangi optimization, that is, search engine optimization. Now it has become such that the articles written very well are very beautiful. Instead of written product features, we turn to systems that produce it automatically. Here's why you look today to print an average of 400 words of content. You pay 5 6,000 TL, maybe more, I don't know how much they do last, but I don't think they will do anything below that. If we calculate in terms of hours and hours, if you think about it, the fact that a company with 20,000 products or 10,000 products produces such content for all its products causes a serious loss in the cost of the product. In other words, it causes a serious loss from profitability. Today, you put an image of the product related to a source of an openay that you exceeded by giving $ 20. When you say write a text to introduce this product to me and write it in 2,000 sentences, it doesn't even take a minute for it to write to you. You write this content in 10,000 minutes for 10,000 products and pay $20 for it. So that's how clear it is. So I really don't know what kind of basis this will be in the future and what kind of organization it will be. It's obviously hard to say anything. But what was the communology? Analyzing the user, which is the basis of optimization, what does the analyzed user need the sale for? After removing the need, I think that artificial intelligence can make the foundations that will take actions to close that need much better and faster. I don't know if it does as well as anything. I don't know if it can be as good as a customer representative. With the introduction of engites into our lives, that pregnant began to open up a little. In other words, the difference between a real person and an agen scan. We're in the time we're going to see. Right now, we're going to start to understand them, but where there's professionals who work well, where there's productive professionals, where they see that yes, it's done very well, and where there are people who say, yes, we can do it this way and that, they worked very badly. We are going through a period, so we see it. Inevitably, the differences. Since I follow them, I see the difference very clearly again. While good professionals like Konvery in optimization do this job perfectly with a small audience. Others will do it in a drag-on way. This will cause some perceptions to change in the eyes of the customer. Some will use those vulnerabilities or not. Some of them will have very good experience. He will try to use hurt everywhere. It feels like this is going to be in such a balance. Mig. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. We're going to go back to where we came back to the point where we came at the beginning of the problem, where you work with good professionals, where you work with people who have done this job from the ground up, and where you give them the response they deserve, how do I do this job from the side that does this job well? At the point where I look at it by saying let's start small, when you progress on the professional side, this is always the case. We may think that you would prefer to be in a place where it rotates like a Ferris wheel. In fact, I understand from what he said that the role of its use in artificial intelligence will not only be played in other disciplines, but also in other disciplines. Therefore, artificial intelligence is not something against human resources, in fact, it works as if it will be something that will differentiate and complement it even more, on the contrary. Well, human resources will be constantly needed because they need people who know how to use it. There is a huge gap in the system related to literacy and digital school writing in the sector. For example, I can say that many people hardly work on which product to use and how to better optimize their day at work. It's true, very few people organize them and do in a day what they used to do in a week. Naturally, when that day comes, I still say when that day comes, but what is valid today is that people who know how to use artificial intelligence work much better than people who pretend to use it. This is an opinion that I agree with. Now, while we are talking about conversion optimization, it is impossible not to ask someone who has spent years of intuition about the startup. Because you have created a product that is really the medar and iftar of Turkey. At this point, I will open a window as a question. The thing is, for entrepreneurs who have a startup idea that produces a startup, a watch, this question is actually limited in the amount of resources they are trying to do. But it is one of the points that requires certain expertise in each major field. And what I'm curious about is actually a question, product development, sales activity, you can put it in marketing, but let's call it sales in general and let's consider providing perfect customer support as 3 different areas. From Selin's point of view, she is an entrepreneur or a startup. Whichever of these should be prioritized, I think startups should prioritize a business. Before it is put. I'm telling you all the experience I've had from end to end, I'm going to tell you as a person who hasn't been able to establish their own startups yet. You know, it may seem easy for me to divorce your spouse, but I will say this as a person who lives from edge to end. As a co-founder, I have never looked at the titles as the most difficult job to sell the product, the most difficult job to sell the products. If you have an idea, can you sell it first? It is necessary to look at this. The biggest problem in the world is the biggest problem. By the way, you can't sell the product. The product is sold to friends and friends. Then maybe if something works, you go with someone's recommendation. As a result, you can run out until this is a good thing. If you don't have enough resources, you can run out. It can even consume as moral motivation. That would have been just the ask. Is this a reality in Turkey or a global reality in the global, that is, this is a complete global reality, selling a product is the most difficult job, there is no seller because there are no people who organize a lot of things that I just put in the content of that concept that we call the right seller. Well let me offer a counter-opinion here because it's similar. Although I think about things differently, this is exactly the point where it can be sold or crushed by the competition, if there is a product, it can be more difficult to sell, but if there is an excellent product, it can be easy to sell. Therefore, wouldn't developing the product be one step ahead of sales? There will definitely be an interest. I wanted to say here, can you sell your product before you start making it? First, he wants to say increase it to 10 and look at it as a sales capability, yes, your ability is BNF. I know if there is a channel, I know what good it is for me, it's that simple. If the service you are attacking the person you are telling is a benefit, you think that it is the perfect product. Because it makes you feel so good. Because it takes something instantly to get and you will be very happy as the person who made the product. Because someone would want your product. There is no better feeling than that. By the way, there is no better feeling in a business life than this feeling. Let's tell you the opposite, you tell the exact opposite, the person in front of you will never listen to you. Because what good does it do me because the channel is not opened. He doesn't care about you, he doesn't look at you, he doesn't do anything to buy the product. You don't get excited, you tell, you tell, you tell, nothing happens. That is to say, a portfolio. We are talking about a mass congressional society where some portfolios will not buy you, and some portfolios will buy you. Again, if you are aware, what does he take when he tells me? So what are these main sellable titles of your product? It allows you to see them very clearly. He said that or, in fact, talking about the right features to the right segment at the point where sales and marketing meet. For example, what good does the script do me before I start making it? To better develop the features you open your channel for. It's going to be perfect, and the perfect thing in your head might be something like this, and I'm going to do something. I'm going to do this with artificial intelligence. With a button, uf will do this, I don't know what or something, but the company may not need it, you are very sure that they need it, but the facts on the field. It's not the same otherwise, so you close such a need that you hear something from there that is not something that needs to be done with a button. One of the files is uploaded. You take an output from that file and turn it into text. You have him copy it and turn it into an image, and you make him do in 5 minutes what he does in maybe 100 minutes, or you make him do it in 10 minutes, and he buys it. You make graphics, you design menus, you do everything, but that's where the product is used. Think of it this way, when these other features that I started to make a product would take you 100 hours, you can develop and get it ready in maybe 10 minutes and you can issue invoices. If you jump into doing that and you're trying to do what you have in your vision, that's when you can't sell. No matter how much you explain the product, you can't say it and you can't get it accepted. You are not listened to or heard, or to put it even better, you have done very well. You meet with people who say it is a very good product and turn around and leave, and you waste time. Then, no matter how much money comes out of your pocket, money is a precious moment for you. Since you set them up without thinking, you actually encounter a product that you have stillborn when you start. When you do the opposite, or in something you produce knowing what you can sell. As a matter of fact, you say that I have produced an excellent product, it is very true. The point where the 2 concepts and 2 problems converge is that when you develop your product on things that you cannot sell and cannot sell, you are already making something sellable iterative. That's why at the beginning of the business, understand it correctly and do it correctly so that there will be actions that can be sold later, you know, of course, that's what they say. There is *** in the elevator, the job of explaining the product, everyone is trying to explain this and that very quickly, no, one thing, one shot, I will persuade, a single one. He takes care of the elevator pitch for you. No one cares about any remaining features. We are talking about a single life-changing feature or a feature that will change that place. Kerem I ran out of questions, thank you very much, thank you for your sincere answer and for this very useful conversation. Since you called me, I hope the audience will benefit from a very enjoyable conversation and try to examine the details. If you have any questions, you can reach me through all channels. Today, we chatted with Kerem bozokluoğlu about the basic but critical issues of the conversion optimization journey. If you want to be informed about our new videos and support us, don't forget to subscribe to our channel, like this video and share your valuable comments with us.